After nearly a decade of shaping the narrative of innovation in Central and Eastern Europe, Irina Obushtarova — co-founder, former CEO, and now Strategic Advisor of The Recursive — has stepped aside from her operational role, with a new leadership structure announced yesterday. Not out of necessity, but out of conviction: that founders, much like politicians in true democracies, must know when to pass the torch.

In this unfiltered conversation with her co-founder Etien Yovchev, Irina reflects on building more than just a media company — on building a platform, a culture, and a mirror for a rising region. Together, they revisit key moments, personal transformations, and the paradoxes of leadership. They talk about bold and difficult decisions, staying close to the community, and what it takes to leave and know when it’s the right time.

Etien Yovchev: How did you make such a difficult decision? I mean, most CEOs are not leaving their own company, or if they’re leaving, it’s not because of their own choice.

Irina Obushtarova: Yeah, you didn’t chase me out. [laughs] But I also wouldn’t say I left on my own, though. It was definitely a decision we made together. And we didn’t make it from a place of animosity or conflict. Actually, it was the opposite. Maybe because we know each other very well — and we care about each other—we were able to make this decision relatively easily. And I wouldn’t say there was a lot of soul-searching. It felt, in some ways, as if the timing was right.

In The Hard Thing About Hard Things, Ben Horowitz talks about how being a good founder doesn’t always make you a good CEO. He even says that knowing when to bring the right leadership is one of the hardest and most courageous decisions a founder can make.

I think there’s an outdated myth that a founder must remain a CEO for life to prove their worth. I didn’t leave because I lack grit. I believe I proved it — actually, twice. First, when founding Trending Topics SEE, which was kind of the first version of The Recursive. And then doing it all over again from scratch with The Recursive.

So, for me, it’s been — what — six, seven years since we published the first article and initiated the idea of a specialized tech outlet for the innovation ecosystems in our region. That idea was born in 2018 and evolved over the years. In 2021, it became The Recursive.

It’s time to challenge the myth that a founder needs to stay CEO forever. It takes a lot of self-reflection to realize that what brought us here may not be what will take us further. Just like politicians in real democracies, founders carry a mandate. And when the mandate is fulfilled, it may be time to create space for new energy, new perspectives, new leadership. Otherwise, the organization may stagnate.

So, when we made the decision, I felt that my job was done. If I stayed, it would have probably been detrimental to the company.

Etien: How did you know that your job was done? That this was the right timing?

Irina Obushtarova: Over the years, I’ve learned that good leadership requires a deep investment in personal development. The health of a founder-led company is deeply intertwined with the well-being of the founders. When you and I felt good, the company did well. When we were overwhelmed or burned out — so was everyone else.

That’s one of the hardest parts of being a leader — there’s no buffer. So in recent years, I focused a lot on understanding who I am, what energizes me, and how to manage myself before managing others.

I realized I’m someone deeply motivated by bringing chaos into order. I get very excited to see the potential of something before anyone else does — raw, unformed — and helping it take shape. In the beginning, it’s all a bit fuzzy and blurry. But if you follow your vision and intuition, it starts to take form and it becomes real.

Even when we started The Recursive, many said it wouldn’t work, that it wouldn’t be sustainable. That just motivated me even more.

And working with brilliant, creative people is amazing but it also made the task even more challenging. Creatives often thrive in chaos and autonomy. None of us wanted an authoritarian structure. [laughs]

So it was exhilarating to bring order into such a kind of environment.

Over time, we’ve grown. Today, we have our own processes, systems, customer base and culture. Things are in place. At some point, you just feel it and know it — that your job is done.

It’s a gut feeling — just like so many important life decisions. I just felt my job was done. And I felt the new leadership team had what it takes to bring The Recursive to the next level. So it was time for me to make space for others to step in. That’s how it felt — and it felt right.

Etien: Do you feel like a different type of leader now after five years in this fast-moving company and industry?

Irina Obushtarova: Maybe different in a different sense of the word. I think leadership has always been about authenticity. It’s about coherence between who you are and how you present yourself to the world. If there’s a misalignment, people sense it — and they don’t trust you.